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[Melted]

Give it a rest.

[Megan]

Yeah, give it a rest so we can all resume our apathetic attitudes, stop the dialog, and let someone else deal with the ongoing b.s. that nobody seems to like.

Let me fetch you a nice rubbermaid storage bin for you to pack away your spine and cojones since you don't seem to have any use for them.

[melted]

And what exactly are you doing, Megan? You had better check for any nongreen skeleton cajones in your Rubbermiads before you throw stones. I sure as hell hope you live off the grid and don't drive.

Go ahead now and deal with the b.s. Ms. World Changer. You are so much better than most humans (certainly better than a spineless waste like me). It does take a lot of spine to constantly rag on people actually trying to do something, doesn't it. Bet you felt pretty damn good about yourself after you posted that, didn't you? Hope you posted it from a solar powered computer.

The Ice Palace dialog has prety much been run into the ground. We get it. If you have any intelligent answers or solutions that bring the dialog up a notch, let's hear them. All you have right now are insults, self rightousness, and snide little insider cuts at TNF. Great. Brilliant. Go ahead insult me again, but just make sure you think long and hard about who is stopping the "dialog."

[Megan]

What am I doing? Not enough. I am the first to admit my shortcomings and my hypocrisies for a greener world in our industry and there is proof of it in my writing on this very blog.

I have made many comments on this blog and others that it's not just TNF, it's all of us. I have cited examples of people who seem to be on the track of progressive shift and that we need to keep talking and learning.

The Piton create an arena that allows us to do just that, talk and keep plowing along. But telling someone to drop it just isn't the direction that promotes change. (Nor is me offering you a storage receptacle for your manhood.) If you want to talk about ragging on people, I don't see how ragging on The Piton does what you just asked me to do-- to bring the dialog up a notch and offer some solutions.

I apologize for my sharp tongue-- you are right that it's a show stopper for open discussions. And no, I didn't feel better about myself after I posted that. As a matter a fact, my exact feeling was frustration. I'm trying to connect all the dots and figure out a way to leave a better planet than I found it. I do applaud The Piton for not giving it a rest and occasionally putting a morsel out there for us to bite at-- weather we agree or not.

The Wicked Outdoorsy Blog recently posted on exactly this situation here. I'm sure you're familiar with it as you have them in your blogroll. I really thought their words were genius.

I will end with a quote from a comment on this blog from SL who reminds me of my own shortcomings: "This is where the green crowd runs into holier-than-thou problems, and it's this attitude that turns people off. I'd say that rubbing people's noses in it and getting confrontational just makes things worse. What's needed, as I see it, is a way to unite the patriots and the environmentalists."

So maybe I could turn down the confrontation a bit and you could see that my bark is worse than my bite. I think with both of our energies and our passions to make a point-- perhaps you and I could get together and make some change.

[rested]

Cool. Peace. My manhood feels better. Sorry if I insulted you. Most guys will when you make a jab between the legs. I'm just so tired of this same refrain with no solution attached. My father in law pilots a corporate jet... is he a sinner? A bad man? Would he really be a bad dude if he carbon offset flights? To be honest, he is one of the most yogic, enlightened people I know. By saying give it a rest I simply meant let's move on and focus on something positive. All this grumbling about carbon offsetting, and TNF, and Hollywood greenwashing seems self defeating. I'm not apathetic. On the contrary, I want to see solutions. And I have certainly tried to stand up and do something about it. I have been nailed point blank in the face with pepper spray and tear gas for exercising my right to protest the rape of the world—only to see the cause I was standing up for marginalized. I have put long thankless hours into environmental campaigns only to see them fail because we were so focused on our own ideals. I have seen so many good causes lose not out of apathy, but out of idealism. I think passionate greenies are often too willing to forgo any type of progress if it doesn't fit in with a very narrow interpretation of what is right (an interpretation that most people are not able to live up to, certainly not me). What are the solutions? Let's work on finding programs that make a difference instead of being so catty. I just think a lot of energy that could go into finding solutions is going into bashing anyone who does not step in line according to the green police. And that is the very reason why truly good liberal causes so often lose in the court of public opinion. Yes, I understand the danger of diluting and profiteering off and in essence sabotaging the movement, but I also think that a little positivity could go a long way and then give the space to make suspect green programs better. Ed Marston once wrote a great op ed for HCN about how environmentalists need to turn down the screech in their message. It was a piece I reacted against at first (but the world is dying!) but slowly I have leaned the wisdom in it. When I first started as wilderness ranger, I was extremely idealistic. I wanted everyone in the woods and mountains to abide by the same strict, NOLS-taught standards I had. But as I interacted with people, I learned that I could be a lot more effective listening to them and respecting them. Then , they would start to listen to what I had to say. There was give and take. And even if it still pained me to see them doing things that went against my wilderness ethics, I got through to them and they made small changes that they would not have made if I had been authoritarian with them. Small changes make big differences. As you have said, we are all sinners. My favorite passage in that great story of sinners, The Divine Comedy, is when Dante reaches Purgatory and Virgil washes all the sins of hell off his forehead. It's a beautiful movement, free from religious dogma, I think, and open with the possibility that we can all wash ourselves clean and begin again to reach for the stars. Here is my olive branch. Please take it and let's move forward.

[groovy]

Only if that olive branch came from a organically grown, sustainably farmed, local farm.

I'M KIDDING!!

Absolutely. I knew somewhere in our respective bullshit was common ground.

Cheers. Now, who else wants a piece of us? :)